Having returned last night to the home base I logged on and suddenly found that I have to quickly switch perspective from the Euro-centric view I’ve had since November 8th back to a USA-centric view. One story that I missed while I was traveling that was covered by BrooklynVegan was about how Band of Horses dropped out of a deal with Wal-Mart. It made me blink and had me thinking. In an interview with In Forum the band’s Ben Bridwell had this to say about the Wal-Mart deal – “Some fans, they don’t even give a crap. They’re like, ‘Whatever, bands got to get paid.’ But at the same time, I was reluctant to do it in the back of my mind, and some fans reminded me there is a reason to feel that way about it,†Bridwell said. “So once I saw our fans were let down by it, I nixed the TV commercial, and said, ‘You know what, this isn’t for me. Keep your money.” And over at Pitchfork, they write “Bridwell confirmed that while it could have taken quite a leap forward, Band of Horses’ dalliance with the mega department store chain [Wal-Mart] with the questionable ethics has come to an end.”
So on the surface it seems that Band Of Horses have decided that a major promotional opportunity with Wal-Mart should be abandoned because of that company’s “questionable ethics.” Of which of these questionable ethics bother him or the Pitchfork writer is not explained. It seems odd to me. Given that music sales are in steep decline and that it is harder than ever to reach your fans, why would a band turn down a paid offer to reach more music fans? Bridwell even said that “(the band) could have taken quite a leap forward” – he’s right, it worked for his label mates The Shins. They had a song licensed to McDonalds that propelled the band ever further into the public’s consciousness, and there’s a company that clear cuts South American forests for more grazing lands in which to fatten up cattle for slaughter and have them turned into burgers. I suppose one man’s poison is another man’s dinner. The interesting part for me is that on reading through the many comments that Band Of Horses’ fans have left on various sites it appears that the majority of the fans were supportive of the Wal-Mart deal. One comment was typical – “after all, a band has to be able to eat….” I have to give it to Ben though – standing up and speaking out against something is to be admired and actions always speak louder than words too.
Band Of Horses – Is There A Ghost? [MP3]
Related Post: Band of Horses on Letterman
I wonder if the Band of Horse’s boys can specifically point out the “questionable ethics” that they are concerned about regarding Wal-mart. To me they are obvious at least the one that stands out the most is the promotion of mass consumption. I mean I dont spend my day digging deep into Wal-marts business practices, so there might be a few Kathy-Lee-esque sweat shops or two in India that the boys are thinking of, so what is it?
November 18th, 2007 at 5:52 pmWal-Mart recent green business practices have set a precedent for a lot of major corporations? Anybody have any thoughts on this?
November 18th, 2007 at 9:20 pmwalmart kills small businesses in small towns dead.
i grew up in longview, WA which has a population of about 80,000. getting reports from my dad who still lives there i get the impression chains like walmart depress the economy when the original economic driving force slumps. in this case Weyerhauser (wood products) used to have a 1 -10 relationship. meaning for every Weyerhauser employee 10 other people have jobs in the economy. now, if the economy slumps more jobs are available at places like walmart for much lower wages. ultimately the economy lives on but people are making much less than before. walmart sustains the economy but at lower standards of living.
this is second hand information from my dad so i’m open to the fact that i’m not 100 percent clear on the “walmart effect” but i do think its a factor.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:55 pmIt’s curious as to how the album would have done at Wal-mart. It did good for the Eagles, but the Eagles have a totally different type of audience. Yet, if a band wants to get their music out there at an affordable price, Wal-mart does offer that option. Yet at the same time those price-cutting techniques have killed many smaller shops and “historic downtowns” nationwide. Tough call.
November 19th, 2007 at 8:30 amUnfortunately the pressure to always consume in the USA has driven these companies, Wal_Mart, Best Buy, Target, Costco etc, to ever greater heights because of the consumer’s notion of ‘having to have it all.’ When everything is then made available to them in one place then the first place that suffers is the local high street. And yet given that most N Americans live in the suburbs and exurbs the notion of ‘high street’ seems rather quaint. We should remember that these big stores carry music as loss leaders, there philosophy being ‘get them through the doors with a cheap CD and then sell them a CD player and surround sound sytem.’ Musicians would do well to take notice of just where most of their fans live and consume music as these big stores are the place that folks buy Cds these days. Biting the hand that feeds may not be the best course of action.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:40 amOh please….\”Bands got to get paid\”
Everyone has to get paid. Everyone has to get paid a decent affordable comfortable wage. Im sure the people making $9/hour at Wal Mart would agree and would also be interested in learning the exact amount the band was being paid for this deal. Obviously, making money off of the backs of others did not sit well with Band of Horses.
November 19th, 2007 at 11:10 amDo Band of Horses fans shop at Wal-Mart anyway? Do they have an audience outside of our little indie-elite bubble? Do they get a lot of radio play outside larger cities?
I honesty don’t know – not really in to them that much.
November 19th, 2007 at 4:16 pmAll I know is that I actually find them one of the more interesting rock bands out there. Their existing fans maybe don’t shop at Wal-Mart but I think there was an opportunity to reach more fans through tat store. Who knows….
November 19th, 2007 at 5:08 pmYes, let’s just make everything easy for lazy Americans…why not? Why should they have to make an effort to find good music when they can just have Wal Mart pick it for them? They can get a cd and a tub of nacho cheese and some Nascar dvds in one trip!
I’m moving to France.
November 19th, 2007 at 6:24 pmFrom all of this I gather WalMart’s ethics are bad but only because they’re operating to the full extent of U.S. capitalism; therefore, they’re only as bad as most other large corporations and it’s U.S. capitalism to blame. Is WalMart truly to blame for these economic suppressions (the example that ‘joskk’ points out)? Or is it the idea of getting items at one location that is bad ethics (as kiala points out)?
November 19th, 2007 at 8:27 pmSaying that WalMart operates to the “full extent of U.S. capitalism” is being dismissive and naive. There are plenty of ways for a company to be successful and make money without taking advantage of the underprivileged, uneducated and poor.
November 20th, 2007 at 8:10 amWell, ethical questions aside, I’m not sure signing up for distribution with Wal-Mart or other big-box retailers is great long-term business decision anyway, just like I’m not sure signing with a major label is a great long-term business decision. When a band gets too big, saturating an already over-saturated market, they run the risk of becoming part of our throw-away popular culture where the public builds up celebrities to god-like status only to obliterate them the following year. Who the hell wants to see their CD, their labor and art, collecting dust at the bottle of a discount bin in some anonymous Wal-Mart in middle America? Call me snobish (and yes, I am), but that certainly isn’t my definition of success even when it does translate into actual dollars.
It is possible for a band to build a decent little career for itself while still only catering to a niche market like ‘indie rock’ and its distinctly urban connoisseurs. And it’s been my observation that bands who stay at the mid-level, niche market realm tend to be way more prolific and thus have a better time retaining their core fan base. There are a few exceptions of course (Radiohead, White Stripes.) But overall I think if a band makes an effort to keep their feet on the ground then they have a better chance at a sustainable career.
But then again, I’ve yet to make a dime off of my music so what do I know?
November 20th, 2007 at 9:11 amha – ‘bottle’ = bottom. sorry. :)
November 20th, 2007 at 9:14 amIn response to Dane’s comment:
“Saying that WalMart operates to the “full extent of U.S. capitalism†is being dismissive and naive. There are plenty of ways for a company to be successful and make money without taking advantage of the underprivileged, uneducated and poor.”
I’m not saying that there aren’t ways to make money within the capitalist system that aren’t ethical. What I’m saying is WalMart is just acting within the context of “U.S. capitalism.” By this I mean they aren’t violating any laws by “killing small businesses.” You simply cannot say the problem is WalMart or Starbuck’s or whatever large corporate entity. These companies are simply operating within the limits of the economic system that is in place. What I’m saying in short is don’t hate the player.. hate the game.
November 20th, 2007 at 4:03 pmFRONTLINE did an excellent show on Wal-Mart in 2004 which you can view online here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/
And I agree with Dustin to some extent: It is more of an issue with the consequences of capitalism – or, more accurately, a inevitable consequence of unregulated free-markets at a global scale. Open up the floodgates to any single social-economic ideology, be they socialist or free-market, and you’re going to get extreme results IMO.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:02 pmCapitalism, schmapitalism. What happened to Personal Responsibilty? Conscious Choice? Just because you CAN do something doesn’t always mean you should.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to eat a whole pumpkin pie. Because I can.
November 21st, 2007 at 7:55 amI was certainly one of the people that turned my back on Band of Horses following their announcement of ties to Wal-mart. The way I see it Wal-mart is one of the most abhorent companies in all the world. They absolutely refuse to recognize any union labor, they destroy the economy of small towns, and despite their progressive green initiatives this year they have been a notorious environmentally unfriendly company for decades. This past week I was listening to an interview with one of the Wal-mart higher ups, unfortunately I don’t remember which, and he was talking about all the improvements Wal-mart has made to be environmentally friendly. The interviewer then asked him what the company was doing outside of the company to help the environment and point blank the executive said nothing. He then went on to say they can make a bigger impact internally because of the sheer size of their company, and he didn’t see the point in just giving away money. Seems lik Wal-mart has the means to help such a globally important mission as saving the fucking earth, don’t you think?
As for Band of Horses I still haven’t heard Cease to Begin, but I am glad they backed away from being associated with this nefarious organization.
November 21st, 2007 at 10:03 amSchmapitalist pigs. ;)
November 21st, 2007 at 10:44 amI still have to say that after all this I don’t think WalMart is the problem. Any company is free to make their own ethical decisions; therefore, making them responsible for the impact. However we simply do not have anything in legal terms stopping corporations from crushing small town businesses, etc. Why do you disagree w/ WalMart, Starbuck’s, or whatever corporate monolith for simply fulfilling the stakeholders best interest? What is the suggested alternative? Don’t do what’s best for your company? Our economy is based on this. If you don’t like it there are our ways to change it. I know it’s not ‘cool’ for band of horses to be sponsored by WalMart; however, the reasons WalMart isn’t ‘cool’ have little to do with WalMart.
November 21st, 2007 at 6:23 pm@dustin
I agree, I guess you look at other companies like amazon and apple…I mean they want to make a crap ton of money as well and nobody has any problems with them, especially apple. I come to find out that my brother who has down syndrome just got a job at Walmart….how could you tell walmart that they are a pieces of shit for breakfast, I mean they do do some pretty good things, maybe not in large quantities, but at least they are trying. ps…I will still never shop there…if someone ask why, I will tell them, its one of the more akward reasons along with the fact that I am not buying my kids plastic toys ever again.
November 21st, 2007 at 9:15 pmIt seems to me that we the US consumer are conflicted when we get to the cash register. As has been pointed out here our economy is driven by these very corporations that we have a love/hate relationship with. Wal-Mart being the 1000lb gorilla in the room gets most of the heat. Apple on the other hand has a better corporate PR image but no one ever questions them about their polluting ways – cheap plastics manufactured in other countries, energy and resource wasting by using batteries that die and have to be tossed and replaced and a lack of responsible recycling initiatives when those PCs finally get tossed in the landfill. Sure Mac products look cool but green buyer beware.
November 22nd, 2007 at 7:10 amBack to Wal Mart vs the little guy. This Thanksgiving holiday I need to feed a bunch of people. The cheapest and more environmentally solution would be to go to get all I need from Wal Mart – everything in one place, cheap and only one car trip required. But I like to support the smaller, local grocers and merchants and the vendors that supply those stores – organic farmers and bakers etc. So I traveled all over Portland to do that – sausages from sustainable local sources, along with olive oil, handmade pastas purchased at Pastaworks. Breads from Grand Central Bakery, vegetables from our local Farmer’s Market and a turkey from New Seasons grocery (who sort of support local farmers when they can.) Bottom line? – Way more expensive but that’s ok, I felt better supporting local stores but I burned tons of gas getting across town and at the end of the day I don’t know if those stores pay their employees any more than minimum wage or whether they offer health insurance and any other benefits. I guess that other than New Seasons they don’t. So the quandary is – I supported the owners of those small businesses without knowing how they treat their employees, nor do I know how well they pay their vendors who supply all the fine organic fare that I purchased and I can take an educated guess that the workers out in the fields on those organic farms are poorly paid migrant workers.
Wal Mart or the small business owner or the organic farmer – who treats their people the best? There’s the rub, as they say. It’s not just a simple issue of comparing apples to apples especially when liberal guilt gets in the way.
@dustin – OK… You’re right, no matter how unethical and immoral their business practices are… technically WalMart is on the right side of the law. Just because it is technically legal doesn’t make it the right and appropriate thing to do. The War in Iraq is technically legal, infidelity is technically legal, racism is also technically legal.
The problem is that people like you continue to justify the shitty things that corporations do. Now, this may be “US Capitalism” as you say Dustin… but only because we allow it. As a consumer you choose not to support this sort of behavior by simply not spending money at places like WalMart. The truth of the matter is, in a capitalist society corporations will do whatever makes them the most money. If their current business practices cease to be the most profitable course of action, we won’t have to legislate the change, corpaorations will change themslves.
The way I see it, it’s not capitalism that’s broken, but instead the mentality of the American consumer.
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:31 amI think Dave has made a really great point here by citing Apple. Wal Mart has become the symbol of everything that is wrong with globalization, under-regulated free markets and the resulting homogenization, yet these factors effect the entire spectrum of western economics. Really, when it comes right down to it, all of us in the West are living off the backs of less fortunate populations. No amount of moralizing in this thread is going to change that fact.
And what exactly is the ‘mentality of the American consumer?’ Is it anything different than enjoying the immeasurable luxury of being able to sit down in the morning with our latte (be it from Starbucks or Red & Black Cafe) and participate in a somewhat trivial online debate (over a taken-for-granted high-speed wifi connection no doubt) about the ethical decisions of a fucking rock band? Liberal guilt indeed.
November 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 amI send my intertube comments via organic free range carrier pigeon.
My comments are DELICIOUS.
November 22nd, 2007 at 6:10 pmi bought some snow chains at walmart last year. i must say they sound great.
that said it is important to support companies that we believe in. in this age of information its almost harder to not know the questionable tactics of corporations. we ARE human though. sometimes we need chains on the way up to the mountain. i’d say just keep an open mind and trust your gut.
josh k
November 22nd, 2007 at 10:01 pm[...] Our friends abroad, i.e. those not living in the USA, may not understand the concept of the American tradition of Black Friday. Not unlike the famed exodus of the wildebeest in the Serengeti, the day after Thanksgiving U.S. shoppers fling themselves through the doors of shopping malls across the country to snap up the “bargains” on offer. For the wildebeest it is an ancient and innate rhythm, something that can not be denied – for the U.S. shopper…..well they’ve been highly trained to respond to the ads. For the bargain hunter in you there’s a great web site, Black Friday Ads, to help you find your spoils. It’s funny how worlds collide – one of the most heavily commented upon stories that I ran on the blog this week was Band of Horses vs Wal-Mart, a story that had people on both sides of the fence slinging mud. I enjoyed it. Of course according to Black Friday Ads the best place for bargains is………yes, Wal-Mart. With that irony in mind here’s some more irony as told in one of my favorite Gang of Four songs – Capital (It Fails Us Now)…..think about it while your cooking leftovers America. [...]
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:26 am[...] Related Post: Band of Horses vs Wal-Mart Share this Post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
November 23rd, 2007 at 1:30 pmIjust heard BOH in a Ford commercial. What’s the difference between Ford and WM?
November 27th, 2007 at 2:36 pmCo-signed.
I know all too well Wal*Mart’s that ethics are questionable (my mom worked for them for eleven years), but I seriously doubt that a justifiable distinction could be made between their ethics and those of the Ford Motor Company. I don’t really give a shite whether or not our beloved Band of Horses cohort with the Satans of capitalism, but please be consistent. Are they taking a stand or not!?
December 13th, 2007 at 5:02 pmMoney is not everything and endorsing the Wal Mart global consumption monster is not high on their list of priorities. They simply choose to broaden their fan base in alternative ways. They got a pretty good life with out selling out like that. Solid move Horses!
June 2nd, 2011 at 3:03 pm