Pampelmoose is a music and MP3 web site covering the eclectic independent music scene. We stay clear of major labels and their artists to avoid having the Web Sheriff gallop through our offices. We are indie at heart so we support all things indie – in all its shapes and forms.
Dave walloped the bass strings and is a founding member of the highly influential, post-punk band, Gang of Four. With his business partner, Ned Failing, he started Pampelmoose in 2005. We love music and we love the way the internet leveled the playing field for all artists.
Josh Kneedler is a highly experienced interactive designer. He began working in online media in 1997 at the birth of the interactive world, a world we now take for granted, one that has become as common as the utilities we use at home. His skills consist of design, programming, and creative direction. It’s an eclectic mix, but one that is vital to pursuing new ventures where traditional broadcast media rules do not apply. Josh understands that music artists no longer need traditional record labels. A consumer in Japan may never have heard of our local Northwest music scene so local bands need a different way to promote their independently produced CDs. Josh has the necessary skills and experience that highlight innovation over imitation to tackle contemporary challenges in the world of interactive programming, design and creative marketing. Some of Josh’s work can be seen on his web site: http://www.joshkneedler.net
The great news is that Radiohead have finished, and will release, a new album. Even better news is that they are taking things down a different path when it comes to delivery – no record label. You buy the album from them. You can order it today and the ‘Discbox’ will be delivered to you by early December but on October 10th you can download the digital files. If you don’t want said Discbox you can buy digital files only and name your own price. Much more detail here.
As with Prince, this might work for established artists (who have, in part, gained a reputation via major label involvement), but I’m not sure how well it will work for the industry as a whole. Is this the elimination of scarcity – or merely part of the shift away from recorded music and on to increasingly expensive live shows and high-end boxed sets? This is not a dis – merely a few questions.
October 1st, 2007 at 8:46 amJim,
I think you’re right in saying that this will only work for established artists. I don’t think it’s the elimination of scarcity though. In the case of Radiohead it feels like a perfect Long Tail scenario – they have their niché – their giant fan base, and they have marketing – both live shows and the press and internet. They also seem to understand that in order to sell music these days you have to offer up something that has perceived value. In this case their are a few options – Discbox £40 ($81 US) which is the complete package, the downloads (name your own price – I paid £5 ($11 US), you can pay zero apparently and in 2008 you’ll be able to buy the CD if you want it. As for the price of live shows, in real terms they are not really that more expensive these days than they were 20 years ago if you take inflation into account. For the record, if you pay $25 to see my band Gang of Four next week, that’s less than what you’d have paid 20 years ago..I know there are some high end prices out there in the $200 plus range but it seems that they exist at that price because folks will pay…
October 1st, 2007 at 9:36 amWhere are you playing next week? I dont know why I am not aware of this.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:54 amWOW. you called it Dave! I think there are a few smaller artists this model will work for. Sufjan Stevens comes to mind. Or Dj Shadow. Since there now seems to be a network of fairly organic blogs that many people check out and talk about, the great stuff can definately get noticed. Media is the key—as long as the public is interacting more and more with non-conglomerated mediums this stuff is going to be become more common. but we’ll see.
as an aside, many of the blogs getting word out about this release likely wouldn’t have gottin’ excited about ‘pablo honey’ if it were released by an unsigned band. something to debate though…
and is it safe to say that Radiohead is the best unsigned band in the world?
October 1st, 2007 at 9:55 amA new note from Jonny Greenwood of the band -”Just to let you know – mel called to say that w.a.s.t.e are working on the current gear-grinding at inrainbows.com….it’s getting busy in there – busier than they expected.” Dead Air Space
October 1st, 2007 at 10:29 amMan. I’m so psyched about this whole thing I don’t even know where to start… Ok, first a question. I just read an article which notes that, since artists traditionally cough up most of the revenue from album sales to their labels, if a bunch of people pay $2 for the album, it more or less equals what radiohead would have earned had they distributed it on a Major. Does this sound right? If so, I’m smacking myself in the head for not having realized that sooner.
http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/10/01/radiohead/
Secondly, I wonder why some of you folks think it wouldn’t work for unestablished artists. Its cheaper and easier than trying to sell a roomful of CD’s that cost you thousands to press. No need to work out a distribution deal either. I don’t think distribution really spreads the word about an artist – thats what marketing and promotion does. And I imagine you will have just as much trouble getting a good marketing campaign going as a new artist with a digital download of an album as you would with a piece of plastic.
Seems to me like the catalyst to making all this work is – same as it ever was – advertising.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:31 amThis is where UPS and FED EX get into the music industry…that is if there is any sort of tangible media to deliver.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:38 amOk, so if at the end of the day they say that out of 20 million digital orders for the new Radiohead Album only 1 person did not pay an amount for their music, you will know who it is. Yes, me. I just paid them nothing. I tried putting a negative in the field to see if I could get them to pay me, but those smart people at w.a.s.t.e. did not include that as an option.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:06 pmJustin,
October 1st, 2007 at 12:22 pmThe iTunes model leaves the bands with very little income out of that single download after the label has only received 0.70 cents from Apple. And even Apple admits it’s having trouble selling full length albums as downloads. So let’s say 1 million fans but the Radiohead Discbox over the next 3 months ( I think they could do that) then $80 million dollars heads Radiohead’s way..so even if cheapskates like Bryan V (just kidding Bryan!) get the download for free, as in zero dollars, the band still makes bank.
I agree with you about this model working for less famous bands too – it’s all about a value proposition for the buyer and marketing and advertising for the seller.
I just realized something that I forgot to mention – this is a giant blow to the CD retailers of the world especially as it comes in the all-important last quarter holiday season period……
October 1st, 2007 at 12:31 pmLet’s face it… Radiohead are genuis.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:36 pmdave, I prefer thief…dont forget I tried to get them to pay me! :)
October 1st, 2007 at 12:49 pmHilarious. I just decided to randomly check out Radiohead’s site today after not visiting for a while. After exploring the In Rainbows site, I just had to run over to Pampelmoose to spread the word…but damn it all if Dave didn’t beat me to it. Way to be on it, Dave!
Jonny – “and is it safe to say that Radiohead is the best unsigned band in the world?”…YES! (outside of Portland)
October 1st, 2007 at 1:17 pmThere are also several live clips of new songs off of the album floating around youtube…like this one called 15 Step: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgAYPPsZajE
October 1st, 2007 at 2:05 pmLefsetz has a ramble about it too.
October 1st, 2007 at 4:18 pmWait…when are you playing next week? Did you not mention it because I embarrass you? Are you afraid I’m going to show up in my Gang of Four pajamas? Because I am.
October 1st, 2007 at 4:30 pmI asked him that question, too, Kiala. Answer…”yo mommas house”, and then he posted that arnold thingy. So, I think he is playing at my moms house next week.
October 1st, 2007 at 4:57 pmYour mom is the best. Except when she gets into the sherry. Then watch out!
October 1st, 2007 at 6:37 pmI got those pajamas. well- I thought I did anyways. I bought them on ebay. turns out they actually say “gang of fore!” on them—they’re golf undies. they are covered in golf balls. I wear them whenever Tiger is leading a major. yes I am drinking right now.
October 1st, 2007 at 8:00 pm[...] If it’s October 2nd wherever you live you can buy the new album from PJ Harvey, White Chalk. If you prefer downloads you will have to go the new Amazon download store as it seems that it won’t be in the iTunes store – just like the new Radiohead album. [...]
October 1st, 2007 at 8:23 pm[...] Of course there is always a chance that once the element of the Radiohead new, new thing has worn off we will still be stuck debating what the future of music holds. Silicon Alley is suggesting that at retail things could get very bleak in 2008. They are saying that they’ve heard Walmart, Target and Best Buy will scale back heavily on the amount of sq ft they give over to CDs. Apparently the numbers being thrown around are in the 20% – 40% range. Everyone’s conclusion is the CD market is in permanent decline. And as Silicon Alley suggests, a cutback sets off a self-fulfilling prophecy: Retailers stock less music, so consumers have less to choose from, and then buy even less, causing retailers to stock even less. Of course this debate concerns only physical retail sales offline when someone says that customers “will buy even less.” Online the debate is different; given the opportunity that iTunes and the new Amazon download service bring, not to mention how much cool new music can be found in music blogs such as the Moose and 3Hive (and if you’re on a Mac then Peel is your best friend – it does it all for you.) At SXSW 2007 David Byrne made a prediction that – “digital sales would outstrip CD sales by 2012. He said that year will be the “tipping point,†much like the mid-to-late ’80s when CDs overtook cassette sales. Once download sales became the norm, Byrne said, it will allow manufacturing and distribution costs to approach zero. “That is a fact,†he said.” I am offering up late 2010 as the new tipping point. [...]
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:22 pm[...] Related Post: Radiohead: In Rainbow [...]
October 6th, 2007 at 9:36 am[...] Another languid weekend at Moose towers. After last week’s Radiohead schmooz-fest I decided to dig through the MP3 collection at home as I know I have every record they’ve produced plus I have a collection of albums that feature ‘head covers. Jazz was on the agenda this a.m. and so I dug out Day is Done by the Brad Mehldau Trio. For a pianist steeped in jazz, Mehldau has quite an eclectic rock music taste; the title of this album alone is taken from a Nick Drake song from his classic album Five Leaves Left. And yes, he likes Radiohead too: [...]
October 7th, 2007 at 12:28 pmI just stumbled across this webpage, a few days behind the conversation. But I simply must say that I’m terribly disappointed to hear a member of the Gang of Four justify current concert prices with “free-market” supply & demand rhetoric.
True, Gang of Four concerts are still reasonable.
But others, say Neil Young, have become much, much more expensive. In the late 1980s, I spent close to $100 total to take my college girlfriend and parents to see Neil Young & his band from the 15th row of a small 1000-seat auditorium. This month, Neil Young is returning to that same auditorium. If I were lucky enough to even have the opportunity to buy tickets directly from Ticketmaster, I would have to pay at least $600 total to get 4 seats in same location. And Neil Young is not even one of the really high-priced music acts today!
While there are people willing and able to pay for such tickets, these sorts of prices lock out the vast majority of Americans from these concerts. Not long ago, anyone in America could go to a rock concert. Now, many rock concerts are limited to the upper-classes in our capitalist society. Moreover, these sorts of prices — especially when justified by “free-market” ideology — encourage a culture which condones scalping, and the reselling of unneeded tickets for the maximum amount possible. Such thinking, and such practices, used to be frowned upon by rock fans …and rock musicians.
- Steve (Portland Oregon)
PS: Some people probably think that if somebody wants something badly enough, they can find the money or save the money. But there’s never time to save money to buy such tickets, because the opportunity to buy tickets comes and goes extremely quickly. (And of course, there’s a very large number of working Americans who could not afford such concerts even if they had months to save their money.)
October 11th, 2007 at 12:47 amSteve,
October 11th, 2007 at 7:57 amI think I may have understated my point or perhaps I just wasn’t clear enough. For Gang of Four concerts we get paid less in real dollars than we did 20 years ago because audiences appear to be allergic about paying $40 to see us perform at say The Roseland or The Crystal in Portland. Those venues hold a maximum amount of people and at a per head ticket price of $20 – $25 per head we actually barely break even because of our fixed costs – road crew, transportation, hotels, fuel etc etc – those costs have kept pace with inflation whilst ticket prices have not.
As for inflated prices at a Neil Young concert perhaps we blame the Rolling Stones who perfected the model of raising ticket prices. As their talent for songwriting diminished and their ability to put on a dynamic live show grew it seems that the fans were willing to pay any price to get to see a show – let’s also call it the graying of America too as the baby boomers have apparently limitless amounts of disposable income to throw at these bands. Springsteen is putting the awful E Street Band back together let’s see what prices those tickets are this time around.
I don’t condone inflated prices but I would love to see parity for the bands in the middle to be able to receive a fair pay day for concerts especially as music sales decline. Until people vote with their feet by avoiding concerts that are deemed over-priced I,’m afraid the practice will persist…..